*See the bottom of this page for the four poems discussed during the chat.*

5:29:56 PM john taylor
Hello everyone.

5:30:53 PM john taylor
I hope you are all aware of tonights topic

5:31:37 PM Flame
Hum, hum... silence everyone... our maestro is here!

5:32:03 PM john taylor
There are the four poems posted on the site since yesterday- not a lot of time to study i know, but they give us a focus

5:32:28 PM deja
So what poem do you want discuss first, John??

5:33:14 PM suz
Hey Navy Grape, mind if I borrow a line from your poem? Wear your dreams on the outside....I love it!

5:33:43 PM john taylor
If you have read the four poems, lets talk about the first. "Untitled" by Navy Grape (Navy thinks titles are passe)

5:34:58 PM john taylor
I liked this a lot. I thought the poem's beginning was very evocative. Quite sexy

5:35:08 PM NavyGrape
yes, i do. i'm not even sure what passe means!

5:35:15 PM alicia
ok, I thought that the first 3 stanzas were very good, and I would have ended the poem there. The rest of it seems like an attempt to add length to the poem

5:35:53 PM NavyGrape
woohoo! although i wasn't going for that..

5:36:27 PM yangyang
it is somewhat like how i should see my life

5:36:30 PM Flame
"Peel it off"... Very sexy...

5:36:31 PM lisa
AMATUER OPINION ALERT!!! I liked the poem first off because it doesn't rhyme.

5:36:35 PM john taylor
It had a positive message which teetered toward the new age but didn't quite get there, thankfully

5:36:37 PM radiantbaby
i really liked this one a lot. very passionate.

5:36:40 PM alicia
and Titles are aklways the hardest for me to write, because you don't want people to be turned off by a flippant title

5:37:06 PM Red Rose
Fourth stanza seemed unrelated, the rest was ok to me..

5:37:17 PM christi
I think we can all relate to what she is trying to say

5:37:41 PM Flame
Wear your dreams on the outside... I love that line Navy! What was your favorite line John?

5:37:46 PM sunni
I loved the line "There's no lost sleep if you live in your dream.."

5:38:07 PM Emma Peel
I like the youthful optimism of this poem!

5:38:07 PM Daphany Rhodes
i thougt it was good. but then what do i know? i'm from another planet

5:38:42 PM rum runner
John...what poems do you like?

5:38:43 PM Minx
Quite inspirational. Reminded me of things I'd forgotten.

5:39:03 PM ~angel
I liked the underlying cheeriness of it. Like, never give up.

5:39:04 PM radiantbaby
it reminds me a lot of youth. questioning. expressing.

5:39:08 PM john taylor
make your dream...big enough to wear... to keep you warm is my favourite line, but then the first stanza is the one I am most familiar with

5:39:18 PM shanmar
I think I found Navy Grape's most interesting -- nice imagery and rhythms

5:39:27 PM suz
I don't know about sexy John, for the dreams poem, but the next one "Ice" by Ria I related to the first one more, because that's where I'm at in life

5:40:11 PM sunni
It says to me "don't worry so much about all the B.S. Live your life and try and stay focused on your dreams.

5:40:31 PM Paulette
Poems are so intimate, I think that's why I like to read them and write them.

5:40:35 PM john taylor
I like song titles that appear to have no relation to the song sung. some cobain titles are like that, like a lot of modern art

5:40:57 PM alicia
i think the first stanza is sexy in an innocent way, that's why it's sexy

5:41:41 PM john taylor
I don't profess to know a lot of poetry, but I am becoming more aware of it, which is why I wanted to do this. I am not an expert

5:41:47 PM Flame
To me it says...keep dreaming, you're not alive if you're not dreaming

5:42:03 PM rum runner
Like Nirvana's songs? I love quite a bit of their songs too. It's like a poem but kind of neat...like your poems John.

5:42:14 PM chele
sorry, I'm working on a delay... Navy's poem: I id'ed with it becuase to me, it was about finding your arrogance, in yourself enough to go out and do whatever it is that will keep you 'warm'...

5:42:19 PM Red Rose
To me it sounds like someone stuck inside a shell or mold that doesn't fit them, and finally says, " this is me, this is what I do, and I don't have to be what others want me to be... whew.

5:42:28 PM alicia
I haven't listened to any cobain music unless the radio played it, so I wouldn't know. but your right, modern art has titles that leave you to formulate your own idea, w/out bing influenced

5:48:52 PM chele
without some insight into vulnerability, sharing ideas that (yes christi)make some gawk, it's not worth reading for me... wether it's humor or sadness

5:49:20 PM Daphany Rhodes
the hardest thing about writing poetry is facing yourself on paper

5:49:47 PM christi
It's a lot easier to say what your feeling on paper

5:49:48 PM suz
I think poetry in itself is an art, it's a way of expressing oneself, like any other art medium be it music, photography, or painting

5:50:33 PM shanmar
I think the best poetry evokes things that can't be expressed in ordinary language structures -- it evokes a mood or idea rather than explaining

5:50:36 PM Minx
I love the stanza in "Ice" about El Diablo at my door. Such great rhythm

5:51:00 PM Sexkitty
Ria, is El Diablo your "evil side"?

5:51:16 PM Emma Peel
The last stanza of Ice makes me think of soemone testing the limits of their endurance because they feel it's something they must do. Judy's Aids ride comes to mind!

5:51:21 PM NavyGrape
it's a little confusing... is she fighting for something or just trying to hang in there?

5:51:21 PM ~angel
If anyone is interested, I have the snail mail addy for a The National Poetry Society, they will probably publish your poems, and for free...I got one published last year.

5:51:30 PM Kary
christi- I disagree...once I put it down on paper it no longer "sounds" how I feel

5:51:35 PM Flame
John, we should have a discussion like this about the photos sent in on the Snap It page... anyway, back to our poetry chat...

5:52:01 PM radiantbaby
there's a mystery. a darkness that flows through the poem. i feel alone reading it.

5:52:02 PM dark_heart_73
Does poetry have more meaning when it is shared?

5:52:16 PM alicia
it seems to me like the writer is really afraid of making a choice that seems in opposition to what she wants to do

5:53:03 PM rum runner
I've read some great poems in my life...John...tell us all, what is your favorite poem?

5:53:03 PM lisa
Lights of red and blue make me think of a patrol car pulling me over.

5:53:06 PM deja
Poetry to the writer can express, reveal to the reader inner feelings and thoughts they may not be able to express freely or are even aware of until they hear them for the first time..much like lyrics

5:53:07 PM john taylor
"Joints become small mountains..." yes. That's strong

5:53:08 PM sunni
It seems she is writing about the conflicts she's having within

5:53:56 PM Flame
John, are you taking a literature class in college or something? I loved my humanity classes...

5:54:42 PM shanmar
I like parts of "Ice" but it seems like there are too many disparate ideas and not so much a coherent whole

5:54:53 PM lisa
The poem sounds to me like the writer is beaten down and is fighting to stay in control.

5:55:16 PM NavyGrape
i feel like i'm in a fun house reading it. mirrors, colours, prisms..

5:55:16 PM chele
Ria... I liked the rythm of the poem, but it really confused me, can you give a hint to it?

5:55:22 PM ~angel
I like the stanza, my heart is gripped with ice. I really like the way that sounds. Sorry this is so late, but the thing keeps freezing on me...

5:55:34 PM lisa
It reminds me fighting to find happiness in a world full of depression and hopelessness.

5:55:47 PM chickerlee
dark heart-no. Poetry is what you feel, not if anyone feels it with you.

5:56:28 PM john taylor
I Like "Skin" by Philip Larkin. At least my favourite I can think of

5:57:11 PM dark_heart_73
I think I'll write a poem about the confusion of chatting with 37 people!

5:57:22 PM christi
it reminds me of hard times and how everything bad keeps happening. You tense up and wonder why this is happening to you

5:57:49 PM NavyGrape
"What appears before me is not really there", that reminds me of a confusing state of mind

5:58:00 PM john taylor
Yes. It is fighting depression. Is Ria in the room?

5:58:29 PM radiantbaby
i don't think ria is here, tonight.

5:58:41 PM john taylor
This is my literature class

5:59:37 PM alicia
well, I am glad that's she's fighting the depression, you can't give up!!!

5:59:41 PM john taylor
The confusion of chatting to 37 people. That sounds like a zen meditation, like the sound of one hand clapping

6:00:08 PM radiantbaby
john, ria was REALLY excited her poem was gonna be discussed though

6:00:08 PM dark_heart_73
I can identify with the poem, and fighting depression.

6:00:08 PM lisa
Depression is something that I think alot of people can relate to. It is very crippling and leaves you feeling like your heart is frozen.

6:00:40 PM john taylor
Well dark heart, that is a pretty depressing moniker you have there!

6:00:52 PM lisa
HAHAHA! Good analogy John!

6:01:12 PM radiantbaby
zen, john? that's good.

6:01:38 PM NavyGrape
i like Rio's poem. it makes me laugh!

6:01:48 PM john taylor
Rio's poem was quite abstract I thought. Or am I being naive?

6:01:49 PM ~angel
The second one by Navy is by far my favorite.

6:02:09 PM dark_heart_73
It's a nickname I picked up a long time ago. It doesn't fit quite so much now. But I still have a tattoo of it branded on my shoulder.

6:03:01 PM rum runner
No you aren't John.

6:03:11 PM suz
Lit class huh? Cool!

6:03:11 PM radiantbaby
rio's poem reminds me of meeting a rock (or should i say "rawk"?) star. "never knew the power he had, the crack of his butt drove me mad" -- okay, i'm reaching

6:03:14 PM christi
Your doing fine John

6:03:22 PM ~angel
No, you're not being naive, I didn't get it either. Although , that stanza about the butt crack had me rolling on the ground...

6:03:34 PM marlene
Rio posted it on a dare...

6:03:38 PM Emma Peel
I thought Rio's poem was about you JOHN, but of course, that was my interpretation, and it could easily be wrong

6:03:41 PM john taylor
What is "Mox"?

6:03:44 PM deja
No John you're not though I'm not sure if Ria had intendeed it to be that way, but poems to me can mean whatever the reader reads into it giving it a different meaning to everyone

6:04:06 PM Kary
Rio's reminds me of "Darling Nikki" Please don't take offense, I meant it well

6:04:26 PM john taylor
"the crack of his butt..." is that a little SM allusion there?

6:04:44 PM chele
Any idea what mox is?? or am *I* being naive?

6:04:50 PM alicia
Rio's poem is hilarious! Very cool to be able to combine pure humor with histroic imagry!

6:05:04 PM lisa
I must admit that it made me think of meeting you John.

6:05:18 PM NavyGrape
mox? i wondered that myself... but it still is funny. like getting a compliment from someone you idolize, or something...

6:05:56 PM chele
John, i think its a plumbing allusion...

6:06:38 PM lisa
John my dear, SM are a normal part of this board.

6:07:18 PM sunni
Navy~ were you trying to say leave things undone? "destoy the constructs, build the rubble.." just a thought

6:07:26 PM dana
maybe she just liked the way mox sounded?

6:07:39 PM ~angel
I didn't get any SM alluded to from that poem, I just thought she meant, "he had a nice ass."

6:07:47 PM Emma Peel
moxie--pluck , ability to face problems, like moxie maybe?

6:08:02 PM alicia
I thnk it's an inside joke, like the charmin stuck to the shoe, that she added a poem to.

6:08:13 PM Flame
"build the rubble" I like that...

6:08:13 PM dana
anybody ever made up a word for a "filler"? we have !

6:08:14 PM Minx
Well moxie means courage, determination, etc. but I'm not sure "mox " is a word. Not that it matters

6:08:23 PM john taylor
I feel like I need to know mox to completely appreciate this poem. Although I do like it. We read mox as a short form of moxy. But what is moxy?

6:08:47 PM chele
i'm gonna go out on a limb here - what is moxy? Although it fit..

6:08:54 PM christi
the word moxie means the ability to face difficulty. Maybe it's short for that.

6:09:19 PM ~angel
Hell, maybe she's making up the English language as she goes along. ( Oh Rio will just love that I said that.) But I will most definately look it up later.

6:09:21 PM john taylor
You think it might be a filler word? surely not!

6:09:31 PM radiantbaby
mox is probably moxy. it's like having spirit or balls. a jewish saying.

6:09:53 PM sunni
Moxie means energy...good old Webster!

6:10:06 PM john taylor
It has me flum-moxed

6:10:21 PM ~angel
Why not? Haven't you ever used a word as filler so to speak...?

6:10:28 PM lisa
Moxy means audaciousness..guts..balls....

6:10:51 PM alicia
well,we know what kind of mood your in tonight now, don't we?

6:11:15 PM chele
Now if I just knew what Hrok was...

6:11:28 PM sunni
or courage, determination

6:11:34 PM ~angel
hahah, that was funny. I believe John just made a joke.

6:11:45 PM dana
well, havent you ever used a word for it's sound, rather than meaning? it was just an idea, then again i have/had never heard the word moxie before

6:12:03 PM john taylor
OK. It's a jewish SM allusion to energy that is really an inside joke..that doesn't stop us from enjoying the poem anyway. Who is this girl?

6:12:11 PM chele
I think mox is too accurately placed to be filler, and then to say it again... nah.. couldn't be

6:12:42 PM NavyGrape
john made a funny! great, this is what i'm reduced to!

6:12:53 PM john taylor
Matt thinks it's simple: They fucked, he left, ..and that was all he wrote

6:12:59 PM lisa
You are a little comedian tonight John!

6:13:13 PM dark_heart_73
John, you're so punny!

6:13:13 PM marlene
the poem is a mixture of two girls....one real...one not.

6:13:17 PM Red Rose
I'm probably behind on this, but what does rawk mean?

6:14:17 PM alicia
JOhn, you're the only one to read S&m into it...

6:14:55 PM radiantbaby
rawk is a more empasized version of "rock" -- for exampleJOHN TAYLOR YOU RAWK!

6:16:53 PM dana
go and read it, with Matt's analysis in mind,..it makes it even better

6:17:18 PM ~angel
If you're going to take it that literal, they fucked and he left, what does he signed my card mean?

6:17:20 PM alicia
they must have done it twice, since the moxed twice!

6:17:46 PM john taylor
Well it certainly paints an interesting picture, leaving a lot to the imagination. I like it

6:18:01 PM deja
OK next poem don't get these girls going on sex again John they'll have you gagged, bound ,and strawberries everywhere11So beware!!

6:18:11 PM radiantbaby
it meant SOMETHING to the guy in question though, he called her "a goddess". but then he could've been shitting her.

6:18:16 PM alicia
he signed my card = she came!

6:18:32 PM john taylor
What about "Untitled 2" Someone said it was their favourite. Why?

6:18:52 PM sunni
I think Rio's friend met a RAWK star and he gave her an autograph

6:19:05 PM Red Rose
is the signed card a reference to older times when men would sign up on a womans card for a dance with her, like at a ball or such.

6:19:08 PM dana
left a little thank you mam note by the bed?? i sort of pictured it as a mesh between a note, and an old fashioned dance card..you know that the guys would sign to reserve a dance ?

6:19:08 PM sparkle plenty
before you leave john.. would you wish marlene a happy birthday?it would sure make her happy!

6:19:27 PM chele
wow John, you're full of Mox tonight aren't u?

6:19:31 PM Emma Peel
I like the lyricism of Untitled two, it flows nicely!

6:19:52 PM Flame
I liked "Untitled" (1st one) better...

6:20:02 PM lisa
The first stanza made me think of looking into someone's beautiful green eyes.

6:21:01 PM alicia
i liked the others bertter than this one, it doesn't do anything. it's very short and choppuy, kind of like some of JOhn's lyrics.. oh, ahem, it's beautiful....

6:21:02 PM john taylor
Happy Birthday Marlene! I hope I wasn't too late

6:21:17 PM sunni
Because as I was reading "falling into the vastness, consumed by the depth" I could feel myself falling to. I love that-to be able to feel what the writer was feeling

6:21:28 PM shanmar
"untitled 2" is great to read aloud -- the flow of the rhythms!

6:21:43 PM lisa
After that first stanza though you lost me NavyGrape.

6:21:58 PM alicia
the poem is very lush, and lyrical, but I don't feel anything from it.

6:22:14 PM marlene
Never John...and thank you

6:23:09 PM suz
Can I just be content being the class troublemaker tonight....I can't concetrate on anything?

6:23:42 PM Kary
I like how "implode the expanses" feels

6:24:14 PM john taylor
Keep the lucidity.. Is the lucid come about by the absence of distraction?

6:24:17 PM Flame
John, what's your favorite D2 song/ best lyrics that is?

6:24:28 PM christi
I don't really understand this one

6:24:57 PM NavyGrape
i like the "implode" part too. heck, i like all of it. it;s the words

6:25:07 PM john taylor
Suz- run around the playground once or twice and then come back!

6:25:14 PM radiantbaby
i liked "untiled 2" -- the words had great character. i liked "enjoy the bereftness" - a difficult thing to do.

6:25:55 PM john taylor
The Chauffeur comes to mind as a very poetic lyric

6:26:58 PM alicia
I think thi spoem is about lunch hour at school... sitting back watching the crowd, and seeing from the outside.

6:28:12 PM NavyGrape
lucidity is from the imploding and reconstructing. making yourself comfortable

6:28:33 PM Flame
Do you guys think Simon is a Poet???

6:28:33 PM john taylor
Navy- what does the velveteen green refer to?

6:30:16 PM Sexkitty
The lyrics on "The Chauffeur" have always been some of my favorite...I especially like what you guys did with that on Thank You

6:30:27 PM NavyGrape
velveteen green is a soft fabric and a very earthy color. comforting. i think i'm going for utopian

6:31:10 PM john taylor
Simon IS a poet. No doubt

6:32:49 PM NavyGrape
too much pefectionistic ideas in this poem. am i a communist? do i sound like one?

6:33:22 PM john taylor
DD trivia. I thought it was funny how SLB made reference to the "great distance" between Highland and la Brea when it is only a couple of short blocks. Poor research!

6:33:23 PM ~angel
Navy I like the very last stanza of your poem, "maniacal fun, enjoy the bereftness,keep the lucidity, save the masses." It reminds me of Dave Gahans work.

6:35:00 PM john taylor
Seems more anarchistic than utopian

6:35:00 PM rum runner
Drive By...right John?

6:35:02 PM deja
In my own way i used to think you were naming off streets in NY but i soon realized the names were the same in Birmingham

6:37:45 PM john taylor
Yeah Drive By. The streets in MOW were in NY

6:37:50 PM ~angel
Why do you think it's more anrchistic than utopian?

6:39:12 PM john taylor
I thought at first we should have a winner from tonights discussion, but I think that would be unfair. All of the poems are interesting and have warranted some discussion

6:39:58 PM john taylor
Well angel, it's gleeful destruction, and I don't see much utopia in rubble

6:39:58 PM NavyGrape
i can take it. besides, most of it;s been positive! plus i wouldn't miss a chat unless the phone lines were down! or i had a game...

6:40:16 PM dana
good idea, not to have a winner..

6:40:37 PM alicia
I thknk everyone who enjoyed this discussion is a winner! It was refreshing to discuss an actual subject.

6:40:40 PM john taylor
What is your game Navy?

6:41:08 PM sunni
I think she just meant that the velveteen was her utopia...

6:41:12 PM Flame
What was/is your major in College Navy? You should go for literature or something like that...

6:41:16 PM nicki bates
John how is the Nigel page coming? gonna have somthing new for us soon?

6:41:48 PM alicia
Does anyone believe Utopia can exist?

6:41:58 PM john taylor
Yes it was brave on you to sit in on the critique. We will keep the poems posted for a while along with the whole chat

6:42:58 PM sunni
Alicia- utopia can exist. Within.

6:43:27 PM john taylor
Lets stick with the poetry for a while. It's easier for us to all comment on posted work than music(songs ) it's an idea for the future tho'

6:43:42 PM NavyGrape
i play tennis right now (although snow has cancelled practice) and i plan on majoring in chemical engineering

6:43:57 PM ~angel
I got the impression of Utopia/Utopian (what word should I use here) from the beginning, but the you're right about the ending.

6:44:25 PM alicia
well, wheer will the poems come from for the next time? local authors again?

6:44:53 PM john taylor
There'll be a new Nigel page this week

6:46:50 PM alicia
JOhn, we were discussing something controversial before you came in, I said I felt a sheep effort from all the people posting poems today because they felt they had to! any comments?

6:46:57 PM NavyGrape
i think my utopian obsession (i like the word) has come from reading 1984, BNW, and Anthem within a 5 month period...

6:47:34 PM john taylor
e-mail the poems to us if you want to have them discussed. We will try and pick a good cross section

6:48:40 PM john taylor
I've got to go. I had a good time. Lets do it again soon (bring a guy with you next time!)

6:48:47 PM Nomi Sunrider
untitled 2 I see a person, on one hand you try desperatly to appear in control, calm what is expected. On the inside you are a mess& the trouble is reconciling the true and image

6:49:11 PM alicia
are you suggesting a threesome John? wink wink

6:50:15 PM john taylor
Alicia- whatever keeps us moving. I am glad they did, are you? and where did you get that innuendo from? Not me

6:50:58 PM john taylor
Oh that innuendo! Meaning- how do we get some fellas in on these chats! Bye...